Curse

God Apprentice · Nov 11, 2006, 08:46 AM // 08:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by generik

How is this different from IWAY, or VIMWAY, or other WAYs?

Beating a dead horse there, aren't you.

I agree with Yuna. If you notice some teams can hold for hours now, and from what I have faced in HoH 99% of it was Hero teams. Hero teams really need to be reduced because there really is no real competition there anymore. Another thing, even if you did get rank from using Heros you haven't learned how to play as a real team, most you've learned is the maps.

/signed

Satans Dominatrix · Nov 15, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

/signed

HA has become a joke. The fun is gone. I played HA as often as i could, now I could care less about it. I say we "bring back the rifts" and call it a day.

Y O U Lo Se · Nov 15, 2006, 06:47 PM // 18:47

/signed

Not gonna write my arguments down again, just read pvp forums etc.

phasola · Nov 15, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

/signed
Oh yeah, change it back to 8 v 8.
And to people that whine about rank elitistm (PvE crowd of course), as many other people have already stated, what's wrong about it ? We were all unranked, r2, r5, etc. Do you want me to take you into my group when you don't even know the maps ? We all know when that's gonna happen....
I still remember losing constantly to ghosts in renewal days

.

phasola · Nov 15, 2006, 07:35 PM // 19:35

double post.

Northrog · Nov 15, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akimi Akatsuki

/signed

Make it PvP again not PvPw/HEROES

/signed

zwitterion · Nov 15, 2006, 09:32 PM // 21:32

I'ma /sign because i agree with the principles but there's a lot of stuff in the OP that's kinda galling.

I'm pretty new to HA, I have 9 fame and it took me a goddamn while to get there just monking for random pugs, and no most of the groups i'm in CAN'T beat a team of heros - so I hate that "if you can't beat heros / can't get a group you shouldn't be in HA" line, it's so moronic. Of course you should be in HA. As much as possible. To get better.

At the end of the day though I would even rather party with a bunch of PvErs packing mending and firestorm, and get my ass handed to me by a bunch of socially maladjusted 13 yr olds than play with or against heros. Cos it's called a multiplayer game for a reason and that's what I want when i log on.

fearian · Nov 15, 2006, 10:06 PM // 22:06

Players > Heros

/signed ...but you still need a solution to elitist or crappy PUGs

The Hand Of Death · Nov 16, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

DIH49 · Nov 16, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hand Of Death

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

ll Templar ll · Nov 16, 2006, 06:11 AM // 06:11

/Signed

I agree with yuna i play with on rare occasions . In my experience in Ha, 1/3 teams in the 1st three maps are hero-way, though the name implies Heros Acent

, its just not hte "feel" of pvp and please don't quote on me, but low ranked palyer , or those starting out should keep the heros to a limit of 4 then it decreases as you gain rank. Anyways that is my opinion

Signed Tempie

Lord Mendes · Nov 16, 2006, 08:40 AM // 08:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by DIH49

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

This post is probably the best I've ever read on guru. Mind if I quote you everytime someone cries about rank elitism?

B Ephekt · Nov 16, 2006, 08:56 AM // 08:56

/signed. I'm also pretty sure that most Spearmen are opposed to the Hero abuse in tombs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Hand Of Death

Elitests ruin HA, so even if you do fix the hero problem you will still have the elitist problem.

Elitism isn't an issue, lazy players unwilling to put forth an effort is. PvP is a social thing, it requires time and effort building up a circle of friends, or searching for a successful guild. If you can't put forth the effort to find other unranked players, start your own groups, or find a tombs guild, it's really nobody's fault but your own.

I think a lot of the problem comes from pvers comeing into HA, and expecting to find a group in 5 minutes, or expecting any player they blindly invite to accept them. This seems like a hold-over form their time spent pveing, which is fine in itself. However, new players need to realize that pvp requires a tremendous amount of dedication and effort to be successful at. This all comes down to the fact that if you're unwilling to put forth that effort, you're probably not ready for pvp in the first place.

Furthermore, I know for a fact that the "I can't find a group" bit is bullshit, because I see unranked groups forming every single day. So why is it that unranked players can't get into those groups? Is it because they think they belong in rank 9+ groups? That's like expecting a top 20 GvG guild to accept someone who has never pvped before.

There is also the issue of rank being equal to tombs experience (or time spent in tombs, whichever you prefer), and the obvious gap between rank 0 and r9ish. The times I've attempted to take unranked players they more often then not lack the required skills to fill the slot, or have horrible builds and are unreceptive to advice given to them. Furthermore, when I sign on I want to play - and win - not hold someone's hand through learning the ins and out of pvp in tombs. I'm sorry if you find that selfish or elitist, but I play this game for fun, not to teach every unranked player in the game how to play.

phasola · Nov 16, 2006, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Whenever someone poses to me the elitist issue, I ask them to solve this dilemma:

Suppose that rank is meaningless. If this is true, then an unranked person should be able to gather unranked people and perform equally as well as the ranked people. As such, there should be no desire to enter ranked groups in the first place. The complaint is negated.

Suppose that rank is meaningful. If this is true, then why should it be wrong or surprising that the ranked exclude the unranked from teams? As such, there should be no opportunity to enter ranked groups in the first place and the complaint is negated.

If you can solve my dilemma, I'll take you seriously with regards to "elitism being a problem". I rather doubt you will though.

Why did iA die ?

On the elitism issue, the only people complaining are r2 people that want to go into r10 groups. We've all been there, get over it.

Cass · Nov 16, 2006, 01:58 PM // 13:58

/signed

Played some HA yesterday, if just to get some faction, and it was another disgusting charade of fighting one bot-team after the other.

Not to mention how teamplay is more rock-paper-scissors than ever with just 6 people in a team, or how the altar & "improved" scarred earth maps lead to random ganking all the time. Bleh.

The Bloodrose · Nov 16, 2006, 02:33 PM // 14:33

/notsigned

I think it's funny that a large % of the people that tell the PvE-ers to adapt, to quit bitching about the pre-NF nerf are PvPers. So I got a few words of advice to all those that bitch to us. Adapt, quit bitching, get some skill. Gaile has said multiple times 6v6 is here to stay, and guess what. If they haven't dealth with the heros in HA by now, they probably wont. Most of the people bitching aren't a high rank either, because higher ranks would be able to counter heroway, just as they did Iway, vimway, etc.

But it would also be interesting to see what problem Anet addresses first. PvP or PvE.

B Ephekt · Nov 16, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Bloodrose

/notsigned

I think it's funny that a large % of the people that tell the PvE-ers to adapt, to quit bitching about the pre-NF nerf are PvPers. So I got a few words of advice to all those that bitch to us. Adapt, quit bitching, get some skill. Gaile has said multiple times 6v6 is here to stay, and guess what. If they haven't dealth with the heros in HA by now, they probably wont. Most of the people bitching aren't a high rank either, because higher ranks would be able to counter heroway, just as they did Iway, vimway, etc.

But it would also be interesting to see what problem Anet addresses first. PvP or PvE.

That's cute that you really have no point except some misplaced anger towards "those pvpers" in general. Grow up, please.

Also, had you actually bothered reading the thread, you'd see that we're not complaining about heros being "uncounterable;" in fact, they're not very hard for any organized group to beat at all. This entire issue is about people exploiting heros to turn pvp (player versus player) into 1 guy and 5 NPCs, which is a total joke.

And aside from the fact that I know for certain a good bit of the people in this thread are rank 9, 10 and 11+, what the hell does rank have to do with anything? This is an issue that effects anyone who enjoys the HA arena...

The Bloodrose · Nov 16, 2006, 02:57 PM // 14:57

Thats my opinion. And you are welcome to disagree.

Oh and I've gotten a few groups together to do HA lately, won and lost a few times. Had fun regardless. IMO I just think people are pissy about losing to AI. *giggle*

Snirp · Nov 16, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

/Signed

Well beating up bots that dont even last 2 minutes is getting quite boring, like, it looks like i'm farming my way into hall of heroes...

hyro yamaguchi · Nov 16, 2006, 03:16 PM // 15:16

I was thinking about the rank stuf: it's like a single percent getting to HoH, so of each 100 teams that join, 99 don't get to make it to halls, of that 1% only 33% can hold.

Anyway, hall holds isn't a good measure for for skill: you could have played the previous maps a 1000 times w/o holding halls once.

But fame isn't a good skill measure either, farming the first 2 maps over and over again doesn't make you skilled.

Now if SF would be nerfed, and hero size limited, how far would you think a
n00b team will get? UW, scarred earth? What we need to do is determine that. And make it so that those maps don't give fame anymore, to prevent grinding.

Furthermore: Iway, SF etc. have caused huge rank inflation...right? And new players can't get accepted into HA right? And good players can get fame easily with their friend list and guild right? So...why not reset all fame? If we do everything we say, rank farmers will quit, skilled players will continue, because they probably don't care about fame anyway, new players will get a chanche and after a few weeks or months HA will be stable again, with
skilledplayers being ranked, and unranked PUG's forming again, because any Iwayed/ebayed/SF'd fame will no longer be around.

The guild ladder is reset after each season right? I assume that is to stop certain guilds to gain a headstart at new guilds, while they aren't the most skilled guild. Now why not reset the fame to make certain players get a headstart w/o having to be the most skilled?